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Thread: Post Terminus Discussion

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    Post Terminus Discussion

    So, now that people have had a chance to look it over and see what's going on, I'd like to see what everyone's thoughts are.

    What's good? What's bad? What would you like to see changed or improved?

    It's still quite a few months away from opening so there's room for change.


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    Needs more cowbell.

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    First off, I think the basics guide needs to be expanded a bit. It's still very heavy in the whole 'overwhelming people with a bunch of information at once'. But then again, that's an easily fixable thing so /shurgs/

    Outside of that, I do think the economy needs to be refined a bit. I really do like the idea of a currency being a driving force BUT the biggest thing that needs to be handled is avoiding the feeling of having to grind. You need to balance out Terra Regia very carefully to hit the sweet spot between not being too abundant and not having people feeling obligated to grind for it. This is mainly going off of things you mentioned to me but I think leaving a bit too much to random chance is a risk and should be avoided. I understand not wanting to over saturate the high level TR (p.s i'm abbreviating it TR. It's a thing now.) but I do feel like some sort of output when you do a mission/quest/whatever should be inherent. Otherwise it'll quickly become the monotony of hollow fights in a different, shiny environment.

    Also, Jesus healing minion might be a bit OP. Just gut instinct LOL.

    I don't really want to comment on balance because i'm 100% sure it's not fully balanced. It won't be fully balanced until people test it out and I already feel like there's going to be some issues on that front because people will figure out how to break it. Even after 9 years of HD people still break HD. The only way we're going to get meaningful data on balance is if people use it!

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    I like what I've seen so far, but - apart from the bare essentials - I haven't really seen enough to form a coherent 'this is good, this is bad' list yet. It all seems super coherent so far and a lot of it makes sense and seems to fit. I actually can't wait to get started on this and, with me in close proximity to 100k reiatsu, it's about as good a time as any to start thinking about moving on to greater, better, newer things.

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    Currently there's only a few spells listed for the different schools of magic within Terminus. It was stated in chat that those schools would be getting more spells as time goes on. But will these be predetermined spells decided on by GMs, or will staff be introduced to review submissions of new spells submitted by players similarly to HD?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nargles View Post
    First off, I think the basics guide needs to be expanded a bit. It's still very heavy in the whole 'overwhelming people with a bunch of information at once'. But then again, that's an easily fixable thing so /shurgs/

    Outside of that, I do think the economy needs to be refined a bit. I really do like the idea of a currency being a driving force BUT the biggest thing that needs to be handled is avoiding the feeling of having to grind. You need to balance out Terra Regia very carefully to hit the sweet spot between not being too abundant and not having people feeling obligated to grind for it. This is mainly going off of things you mentioned to me but I think leaving a bit too much to random chance is a risk and should be avoided. I understand not wanting to over saturate the high level TR (p.s i'm abbreviating it TR. It's a thing now.) but I do feel like some sort of output when you do a mission/quest/whatever should be inherent. Otherwise it'll quickly become the monotony of hollow fights in a different, shiny environment.

    Also, Jesus healing minion might be a bit OP. Just gut instinct LOL.

    I don't really want to comment on balance because i'm 100% sure it's not fully balanced. It won't be fully balanced until people test it out and I already feel like there's going to be some issues on that front because people will figure out how to break it. Even after 9 years of HD people still break HD. The only way we're going to get meaningful data on balance is if people use it!
    Well, the Basics guide is giving a whole lot of information people need. It's meant more to be something people can refer to than something they'll memorize on the first go.

    The economy needs a lot of refinement because it's barely been touched. The ultimate goal is to have the different terra to be readily available in small amounts. Getting more would take luck or time, and the players who invest that time (or get that lucky) can then try to share or sell it. Remember there's basically 15x types of terra you can get and you might only be able to use 4-5 of them. The rest you'd be looking to trade with other players.

    The main thing we want to avoid is a situation like HD where you can buy everything and still sit on a mountain of ammunition and money, but we also want players to interact with each other.

    As for Jesus healing minion, just remember that every ability a pet uses comes from the master's Vigor.

    Balance is going to be a tricky thing with how many combinations are possible. Should be interesting to see how that goes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Haresuno View Post
    Currently there's only a few spells listed for the different schools of magic within Terminus. It was stated in chat that those schools would be getting more spells as time goes on. But will these be predetermined spells decided on by GMs, or will staff be introduced to review submissions of new spells submitted by players similarly to HD?

    There will be staff for releases, feats, items, and spells, just like before. Those spots were intentionally left empty so that players could fill them in.

    Trust me, there are more than enough spells in HD to draw from that we could have completely filled the lists : P


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    We need a hard guide on feats, releases and items. Everything down to the harsh mechanics should be posted and set in stone. If edited there should be a note of it. Everything that you could possibly say about the topic in question and the way it works should be there. While it be true that most of this area is covered...there are a few hiccups as it were in some places.


    Aside from that....things are pretty good.

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    More of a visibility thing than anything, but I think there should be a post on the blog section announcing this as well. It's the first thing that people see when they go to mangaden.net, and if this is our big announcement, then it should be visible for new people to gander at.

    Also, on that note, we should definitely integrate the blog into more of PT's plot. Hype it up on the front to get people interested in joining it and such.


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    When looking at the Battuentis skill tree, the Parry ability states that a practitioner of that level can parry up to 1k vigor. How exactly is that supposed to translate w/ normal attacks, if at all, since we've moved away from stats to skill levels? Or is that something more to the discretion of the players?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haresuno View Post
    When looking at the Battuentis skill tree, the Parry ability states that a practitioner of that level can parry up to 1k vigor. How exactly is that supposed to translate w/ normal attacks, if at all, since we've moved away from stats to skill levels? Or is that something more to the discretion of the players?
    I believe that's more of an OOC thing really.

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    I'm sure we'll get the actual answer soon. BUT, I would imagine that a "normal" attack costs 0, and can be parried by the skill to avoid any damage whatsoever, so as long as the dodger has vigor to spend I'd imagine parrying via the skill is allowed. Doing it that way kind of does keep it structured, to a degree. If it's just a normal atk vs. normal atk., then they're equal and it's probably just under the purview of OOC fight planning.

    Edit: Also this,

    Quote Originally Posted by Swaswj
    Skills are handled on a tier system and have a cap. Rather than having 1000 Zanjutsu vs 1100 Zanjutsu, you would have Adept vs Adept. This allows more of a parity between combatants and a more relatable means of explaining how good they are at what they do.
    Last edited by Lambonite; 05-05-2014 at 03:22 PM.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Haresuno View Post
    When looking at the Battuentis skill tree, the Parry ability states that a practitioner of that level can parry up to 1k vigor. How exactly is that supposed to translate w/ normal attacks, if at all, since we've moved away from stats to skill levels? Or is that something more to the discretion of the players?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lambonite View Post
    I'm sure we'll get the actual answer soon. BUT, I would imagine that a "normal" attack costs 0, and can be parried by the skill to avoid any damage whatsoever, so as long as the dodger has vigor to spend I'd imagine parrying via the skill is allowed. Doing it that way kind of does keep it structured, to a degree. If it's just a normal atk vs. normal atk., then they're equal and it's probably just under the purview of OOC fight planning.

    Edit: Also this,
    Lambo's answer is correct.

    Basically, against someone of relative skill, a practitioner of Battuentis could parry their normal attacks as long as they are willing to spend vigor.

    However, opponents have special attacks, too, and parry can't be used against ones that cost 1000 vigor or more.


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    How close to reality are the bullet physics in the game? And how about VS character durability?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redfin View Post
    How close to reality are the bullet physics in the game? And how about VS character durability?
    Similar to HD is the best way I can answer that.


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    Are these "skills" stats, or are they abilities. And if they're abilities, how will basic stats be set up?

    Also since theirs the thing about blacksmiths and these skills that can be potentially jobs, is there a basic equipment kit/item for each skillset?

    Like will they start with some sort of basic weapon or item? Like a basic great sword/guillotine blade for a barbaris user, or gloves/claws a Puglis?
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    Skills are the stats, based on a tier system instead of raw numbers.

    Vigor acts as an energy pool much the same as a mana bar in most RPGs. It doesn't determine how strong your abilities are, it's how many times you can use your abilities.

    Latens is what you spend to purchase tiers in different skills. If you have 250 Latens, you can obtain a Novice-tier skill (Soldier, Engineer, Duelist, Tamer, etc). Each tier needs more Latens to obtain, and once you have to 'spend' your Latens for every tier. If you purchase that Novice-tier ability, your Latens goes back down to zero, and you have to build up again.

    Vigor is basically the sum of all Latens you've obtained with your character. Latens is how much bank you have to spend on skills. The tier you're at for a skill determines how capable you are with that particular skill.

    In regards to natural capabilities (i.e. speed, physical strength, etc), it's an even playing field until other abilities modify them. A Demvir is as resilient as a Laicar at base, but their Machina Body ability increases their resilience beyond base level (just an existing example, there are a number of others).

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    Quote Originally Posted by MinjaBlade100 View Post
    Are these "skills" stats, or are they abilities. And if they're abilities, how will basic stats be set up?

    Also since theirs the thing about blacksmiths and these skills that can be potentially jobs, is there a basic equipment kit/item for each skillset?

    Like will they start with some sort of basic weapon or item? Like a basic great sword/guillotine blade for a barbaris user, or gloves/claws a Puglis?
    Each skill is a 'stat' and unlocks up to 5 abilities (one for each tier of mastery). There are no basic str/dex/int stats, and those will mostly be determined by the RPer. From a gameplay perspective, every character has the same base ability/potential -- any character could pick up a greatsword or cast a spell, or whatever -- but the difference is going to depend on how you RP them. My planned character, Keydis, is a slim tomboy and I plan to have her using primarily light weapons, and won't have her lifting crates like it's no big thing, because to me, that doesn't fit her character.

    There will be a toolkit for each crafting skill, and there will be basic weapons that you can buy from NPCs. It's unsure how we'll handle starting equipment -- it's possible we'll end up giving some starting exa after all so that you can choose your beginning gear, or we might let people have one basic starting weapon (not one for every skill).


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    Will RPers be able to open shops themselves? I.e. a blacksmith selling the weapons he makes? Or an Assassin selling their skills to the highest bidder?
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    Quote Originally Posted by MinjaBlade100 View Post
    Will RPers be able to open shops themselves? I.e. a blacksmith selling the weapons he makes? Or an Assassin selling their skills to the highest bidder?
    This is found in the "World of Araevis" thread, three sections down under the heading "Major Institutions of Araevis":

    Quote Originally Posted by Swaswj
    The Commercium (Governs Trade Skills)
    In order to be registered as an artisan and allowed to sell goods or services within any city, craftsmen must be licensed through the Commercium. The bulk of all commercial enterprises are managed through the Commercium. Members received preferential prices on goods and tools, as well as a connection to the combined knowledge of numerous different skilled artisans, but pay a portion of all their proceeds to the Commercium.

    Beginning in Terminus, the Commercium was founded by Laicar and initially tied to the Arcanum. It did not take long before members of other races worked their way up the ranks in the administration, however. Presently, most of the Commercium is headed by Velen and the organization has ties to every major city. The broadening of its scope is thanks in no small part to the Empire of Pelagium's tight control of the most prosperous trade routes, as well as the negotiating skills of the newer administration.
    I imagine that this can be done informally through chapters, or done formally via an induction collab with someone else already in the guild.

    Once accepted into the guild, you can sell goods, that much is clear. I'd probably look to other people's writing on potential canon for what paperwork, restrictions, challenges, places, people, etc., are required for admittance. What is less clear is whether or not members will have a specific dealer through the guild or if they can also establish their own contacts and methods for gathering materials for, say, smithing. And is the "preferential prices on goods and tools" a tangible benefit, or merely for background purposes in the history of the guild? Ultimately, I'm wondering if there will be some sort of trade-off benefit for gathering ore, or Terra Regia, dragon scales, whale farts, etc., for artisan/trade work through the guild or by yourself.

    Edit: The same answer is mostly true for your question on Assassins, Minj. The section above it is for "Fraternitas, the Brotherhood (Governs Melee Skills)" and reads:

    Quote Originally Posted by Swaswj
    "... The Fraternitas brokers deals with major cities and governments, promising a steady supply of trained, competent warriors in order to be able to offer a steady supply of bounty missions, guard duties, and mercenary work for its members."
    Edit, edit: If you want an assassin's guild specifically, you'll probably have to set up a player guild, since that's not necessarily the style or purpose of the Fraternitas.
    Last edited by Lambonite; 05-15-2014 at 02:31 PM.




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    One way to think about this is almost in a franchise sort of way. You can set up your own ministore/whatever and affiliate yourself with the larger organization. That way you get a lot more potential for backing and benefits from joining the conglomerate of other workers. On the other hand, you are also tied to any rules and regulations made by the group.

    Starting a sort of mom and pop business is possible where you have a lot of freedom in what your store does and the rules you make for the store; however, if things go south it's all on you.

    There will be sizable benefits from getting weapons/armor/potions/vehicles ect from crafters who are skilled. On the whole, will there be a benefit for setting up agreements with other workers to gather materials for the artisans to create bit, think about it this way. Your smithing ability comes down to being a skill. Say you pump up all your points into black smithing to a grand master but you're very light on combat. A lot of your materials are rare and expensive and may involve significant danger to get, so making connections with trained fighters (who are probably not as good as you are at making stuff) has its benefits. It'll be a while until we have people how are super good crafters AND fighters.

    As for selling your crafted goods, this is where some market tactics come up. It's all about marketing yourself and telling people why you're the best choice for smithing XYZ.

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    When making a mechanical minion robot thingy, can you just write a chap in which your character builds said minion or would you have to spend exa to buy it OOG first?

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    Depends on whether or not you're an Engineer. Ingeniarius can Build Machines, including Drones, but otherwise you'll need to find someone who can build one and contract them.

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    Makes sense. So to start off with one in a plot it would be smart to make an NPC that's an engineer that could help the PC craft one

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dysney View Post
    Makes sense. So to start off with one in a plot it would be smart to make an NPC that's an engineer that could help the PC craft one
    That would be a good way to explain buying the drone in-game (versus just walking in a store), but you would still have to pay the exa even if your own NPC builds the machine.



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    So reading through some stuff, a few questions rose up, and I didn't see them specifically answered from other people.

    So we'll assume I wrote some words and received a nice grade of 100 points. Yay me.

    Now it says that grading points goes towards Vigor, and Latens.

    Do I split this up between the two? Or do they both get 100 to their totals. In which Vigor just is my mana pool and I'll use latens to buy my skills.

    I can see both working, given that if you do spread them out amongst the two in brings in a highly interesting strategic value to working on your character. Does one go for more Vigor pool to spam for days? or does one go for stronger skills?

    On the other hand I can see giving the points to both Stats as a user friendly side of things. Makes things a bit less complicated and cause for the strength of people to grow on a steady scale. Rather than user defined.

    Next question is about Esteem. I assume from reading Esteem is like the old connection. It is a total value of all points gained and will determine plateaus of power, but is not increased by outside sources other than just writing and I assume will not be decreased.

    The that brings up another question, since it was mentioned that 2nd PCs will be allowed. Will reworking stats be allowed? I think if it is, it will bring up issues, as you're working with three stats that are all based off how much you have written. Is Esteem, for lack of a better term, Account bound? or is it character specific? How does reducing stats from PC A to PC B effect latens? or Vigor? If I choose to move over 500 points, would I have to drop a skill that was previously learned? and that would drop my Vigor pool and Esteem count as well?

    Next question, is about Necromancers.

    Last skill, Grandmaster, allows for the Necro to raise the dead and bring it back to life. The wording is a little loose in the ways that my first assumption was that if my comrade, a PC, dies I can bring them back to life at the cost that they lose 10% max Vigor. Since Vigor and latens is sort of linked, does this loss of Vigor have any penalties to latens? or in that fact, Esteem? Is there a cooldown to such a resurrection? or is the balancing factor the loss of Vigor?

    For those looking at this, I would appreciate a real answer from one of the minds behind this. It really doesn't help having people answer only to give their thoughts on what it could be or should be. No offense.

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